Episode 17
Natalie Duvall
Creative Director of March Muses & Culture Marketing Events Manager at Red Bull
ON THIS EPISODE OF ‘JUST ONE THING’:
Our guest on this episode is Natalie Duvall, Creative Director of March Muses and Culture Marketing Events Manager at Red Bull, a Diversity and Inclusion Champion and a presenter on the award-nominated Black Mums Upfront podcast.
Natalie’s work spans culture, creativity and entrepreneurship. At Red Bull, she leads event marketing across dance and music, working with major global artists and delivering high-profile events like Red Bull Dance Your Style. She’s also the co-founder of March Muses, the UK’s leading brand for diverse Christmas decorations. Since launching in 2019, the brand has grown from a kitchen start-up to a household name, with products now stocked in Selfridges, Liberty and Tesco. A 2022 appearance on Dragons’ Den helped take the business to new heights.
Natalie is also a passionate speaker, trained actor and cultural commentator, with appearances on the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and at major events including Stylist Live and Black Investor 360. She champions inclusion, storytelling and purpose-driven work, with a focus on women in business, Black maternal health and motherhood.
Watch Natalie on YouTube or listen to her on Spotify or Apple podcasts
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Dear Natalie aged 22 (2005)
So…. You’re 22. You’ve just finished your Master’s in Acting at East 15, and you’re ready. You can feel it in your bones…..this is it. You’re stepping out into the world, eager to become the most exciting, groundbreaking Black actress the industry has ever seen. You’ve got that “Hollywood energy”! You know you’re supposed to be the next iconic Black doctor on some hit TV show. And you're not wrong for dreaming big. Keep dreaming big.
You are an actress. And the beautiful thing about being an actress is you can blow up at any time. You know this. And that’s what keeps the fire alive. That hope. That hunger. But, I’m not going to sugarcoat it, in your early career, you’ll have great moments when you’ll get to film cool adverts, tour different cities in theatre productions, and even dance with the one and only Tina Turner, but most of the time it will feel like your dreams are parked up while your friends are realising theirs. You’ll sit in the audience clapping for people you love, all while wondering when it’s your turn. That sting? It’s real. But so is your resilience. You don’t crumble. You create.
Because you….. you are a creative. An ideas girl. You are never empty-handed. You always find another way. Even when you feel lost, confused, disappointed, and itching for more…you are more. You’ve done everything “right,” and yet life takes you down a path you didn’t plan, and that’s the magic of it all.
Soon, you’ll take a temp receptionist job at this small energy drink company…. you don’t know it yet, but that decision maps out your entire corporate career. A 9-5 that becomes a 20-year journey in shaping culture, mentoring talent, and finding your voice in rooms you never imagined entering. That temp job? That’s not a detour. It’s divine design.
And then, plot twist, you’ll start a business. (Yep, you.) A business that changes the game. You’ll bring representation to the shelves, slay dragons on national TV, fight against the whitewashing of Christmas, and make the festive season look like you. Like your daughters. Like your community. You start a movement because your magic isn’t limited to scripts, stages or soft drinks, it lives in everything you touch.
and let’s talk about those daughters. Your two broke besties as you call them. You will birth joy in human form. They may test your wallet, but my God, they’ll fill your heart in ways you can’t imagine. They’ll be loud, loving, full of sass, and so funny. They’ll remind you every day that legacy isn’t just about what you leave behind, but what you raise up right in front of you.
You’ll build this full, layered life, a mosaic of ambition, motherhood, friendship, creativity, and faith. And sometimes you’ll be so busy building, you won’t even realise you’re standing inside a life you once begged the universe for. And guess what, You are happy. You are healthy. You are loved. You’ve got family that has your back, friends who ride for you, and mentors who see your brilliance even when you forget it.
And let’s be real: that acting dream? Still there. Still fierce. Still flickering. You never stop loving the lights. You never stop being moved by the performances of icons like Angela Bassett and Laura Linney and Viola Davis who remind you that greatness doesn’t expire. You don’t age out of the dream… You grow into it.
Also, you don’t even look like you’re in your 40s (which you eventually will be, spoiler alert),because yes, it’s true: Black don’t crack. In fact, you glow. You walk with the wisdom of experience and the energy of someone who still wants to do it all. And …. You can.
You’ll have your fingers in so many pies, you’ll forget what the original pie even was. Too many pies? Maybe. But you wouldn’t have it any other way. A true Pisces. You’re the one fish swimming upstream, refusing to follow the current. That’s who you are. You never choose the easy road. You love the challenge. You love the build.
So here’s what I need you to know: be proud. Be so proud. Even when you feel behind, you’re never behind. You’re just carving out a different route. A Natalie-shaped one. And yes, being the eldest sibling can be a heavy cross to bear. But admit it, you love being in charge. You’ve always been the boss. Always been “Miss Bossy Boots.” Own it.
Keep manifesting. Keep dreaming. Keep putting in the work. Because there is so much more to come, and what you’ve already done? It’s a lifetime of legacy. And as for love? Don’t even worry. You’ll meet many soulmates in your life. some for a reason, some for a season, and some who’ll leave you changed forever. But It’s all love.
Keep learning. Keep winning.
With so much love,
Your future selfNatalie (2025)
xx
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Max: Our guest on this episode is Natalie Duvall, Creative Director of March Muses and cultural marketing events manager at Red Bull, a diversity and inclusion champion and a presenter on the award nominated black mums upfront podcast.
Max: Natalie's work spans culture, creativity and entrepreneurship. At Red Bull, she leads Event Marketing across dance music, working with major global artists and delivering high profile events Red Bull dance your style. She's also the co-founder of March muses, the UK's leading brand for diverse Christmas decorations. Since launching in 2019 the brand has gone from a kitchen startup to a household name, with products now stocked in Selfridges liberty and Tesco in 2022 appearances on Dragon's Den helped take the business to new heights.
Mel: Natalie is also a passionate speaker, trained actor and cultural commentator, with appearances on the BBC, ITV, channel four and at major events including stylist, live and black investor. 360 she champions inclusion, storytelling and purpose driven work with a focus on women in business, black maternal health and motherhood.
Max: We're really excited. She's joined us today, but first, Natalie is going to now read a letter to her younger self,
Max: A big, big welcome to the Elevate sofa. Thank you for having me, Natalie, we'll ask you to introduce yourself very shortly to those that don't know you. But what I will say is, hearing that letter again, I feel there's a big space for you on BBC Story Time for Kids, because I was sucked into that. It's Blimey. You're very good at that, right? That was very good, right? Very second. Now that the gushing is out the gushing is out the way. Please do introduce yourself to those that might not know. You tell us a little bit about
Natalie: yourself. I'm Natalie Duvall. I am a mother. I'm an entrepreneur. I am a culture Marketing Manager at Revel UK. I'm a podcaster you said, black mums up front. I'm a dreamer. I'm a believer. I am very dramatic, as my friends will tell you, and I have an obsession with the sitcom Friends. I've seen every episode maybe 170 times
Max: They were very busy as, too busy. And those broke besties of yours that you described, how would they describe you?
Natalie: They don't think I'm cool, which really upsets me. I'm, I'm the coolest mum you're ever gonna have., you have no idea how cool I am. Culture advancing events at Red Bull pretty it's all right, give them time.
Natalie: They are 11 and 14, they're in that teenage, oh, Mom's cringe. But yeah, they don't think, they don't think I'm cool, which does annoy me. But no, they think I'm the chilled parent, I'm not as I'm not as strict as their dad is. And, yeah, their house is a very female hormonal house, you walk in and the hormones are literally attacking you as soon as you walk through that door, it's, it's horrendous. But we'll get through this stage. We'll get through on the other side. I'm in that horrible teenage life bit at the moment. yeah, it's fun.
Mel: one of the questions we love to ask people when they come on is the experience of writing the letter and what it was for you. Because what we've realized is, for many of us that have been in this career for long, it's always on, always go. It's always demanding of your energy and time that we often don't get the chance to look back and take a moment to reflect. how was writing the letter for you and having that opportunity?
Natalie: , it was quite funny. And there's a couple of things that I said in terms of,,, she doesn't know it yet, but this little temp job is gonna change the course of the next 20 years, and it's, when you're in your 20s, you go from trying to make it, trying to get some money in, you don't realize what effect it's gonna have for your future self. thinking about when I first started at Red Bull as a temp. Doing reception work to where I am right now is ridiculous, and it's mind blowing, and it's, what when I was writing that bit, that took me back a little bit to that first day. And also, I wrote something about you're busy, sometimes you don't even get that chance to look around and be,, this is what I prayed for. This is what I've been asking for. I've been asking for children. I've been asking for a career. I've been asking for a bit of financial stability. And, that's what you've got at the moment. you're always striving for more. But, take a moment you've built something that is,, tangible, and something that you've got., yeah, it's, it's, it's nice to stop and to look, but then you also be,, I want to do more now., it inspires you to be,, what else can I do?
Max: Blindness, things. One thing that I commented on beforehand, before we started the letter. In your letter, you articulate it incredibly. A lot of other people will go through a more methodical career stage, almost a CV with emotion. Yours is a lot more holistic. There is emotion, for sure, but there is positivity. There you articulate it beautifully, I suppose. And what I wanted to ask is, in terms of that reflection, that sense of positivity and things, Have you always had that, or is that something more later down the line, as some of these ambitions have been realized with your various ventures, which we'll talk about in a bit.
Natalie: I am a positive person, and I'm always, I'm a glass,, full person, and especially, as I mentioned in the letter, I'm the eldest sibling, I'm the eldest sister. I've got a younger brother and a younger sister, I've always been the one that's been,, this is the plan., let's do this., all right, we're gonna do this. And also, in my friendship group, I'm the one who's,, I'm gonna book the holiday. We're all going to do it. We haven't been on holiday with my friendship group for about five years, because I haven't booked it. if I don't do it, then it doesn't get done. I'm very much a go getter, without a doubt, a go getter. And I've got that definitely from my parents., my mum, she was in media. My dad was in the media as. He was an actor when he was younger. I definitely, it's the, it's the elder sibling thing and,, the friendship group thing. I, I take on that persona of,, the ideas person., why don't we do it this? Or let's do it that, which is a gift and a curse,, I'm not gonna,, sugarcoat it. It can be quite problematic in ways where I'm, I'm sometimes a bit too forceful, too positive, too, no, it's this idea. This is how it needs to be. And, I'm not always right, and that's some things that I'm trying to learn, but I'm not always right
Max: on the way. you're going back then. your letter was to yourself at 22 prior to that. your mum and dad were both in the media. Tell us a bit about that, and do your passion. And I suppose that the ambition to be an actress comes from that.
Natalie: Definitely. My dad was an actor, and then he went into radio, and was one of the pioneers who started Choice FM, which was a huge urban area. Anyone that grew up in that period, nice. Choice FM. Choice FM, yeah, it was in Brixton, on acre lane. I used to spend all my summers there, with my dad, because,, you bring your kids to work all the time and back in those days. And I definitely grew up around music and around theater. My mum was in PR as. music and and entertainment was always around. I've always sung, always danced, did ballet as a child. My mum always tells the story of when we had the nativity play at school, and I came home and I was the cow in the nativity play, and she was really annoyed, because she was,, why isn't she Mary? Is it because she's black,,? And she went down to the school and she was,, why is she not Mary? And the teacher said,, she wanted to be the cow. And my mom was, said to me, why did you want to be the cow? And I was, because the cow gets tap dance., that's the that's what she always reminds me,, I wanted to be the tap dancing cow. I didn't want to be Mary, who sat there with the baby, and I wanted to dance and sing. And she was, Oh, you could have told me that before I took everyone down at this school. I definitely get, I get my, my my drive from my mum, who's always trying to,, push her children and make sure that they're in the right place at the right time and they're not missing out on opportunities. And I do that with my children as., yeah, singing, dancing, acting, it's in my blood. It's what I love to do, honestly,, I went to the BRIT School of Performing Arts. It was a great school. It was,, one of my favorite times I got Amy Winehouse was in the year below me, that's a little fun fact, although she wasn't Amy Winehouse, then she was the annoying. Girl that's singing in the corner, but it was, it was such a great school that it really brings out the best in you. yeah, theater, music, dance. It's, it's what I love.
Mel: You talk about in your letter that journey of being an actress and going through getting some amazing jobs, possibly not getting some of the jobs, watching some of your friends and sitting in the audience, clapping them, wondering when it's your turn. what was that early career stage while you were navigating,, the course of being an actress and where that might lead.
Natalie: It was exciting, because, I said, I was, I'm gonna get it. And I still think that now,,, Spielberg is gonna call me one time and be, we're doing Jurassic Park 19, and we need that black doctor. And it's you, that's, I'm manifesting that moment. But when I was younger, you're full of, you're green and you're, every audition you might get, and sometimes you do get it, and sometimes you don't. I remember getting my first, one of my first auditions, and it was for a butter advert, and I got it, and I was, elated, and it was literally a butter advert where I literally ate a piece of butter and some toast on some butter. And it wasn't anything magical, and it wasn't even acting, really. It was me putting some bread in my mouth. But from then on, I was, I'm an actress, and then you don't get anything for,, years after that, and you're, what's going on. And then I've got amazing friends who,, they've been in some great shows and toured, and I've watched them and applaud them because I love them much. And you do think,, what about me? And I still think it now. when I was younger, there was a lot more pressure, and you put a lot more pressure on yourself to be, I've got to make it. Got to make it. And then as you as time goes on, and you realize, life isn't a B, C, it's a J, Z, X, B, D,, it's, it's the journey. It's the puzzle that you put the pieces in, and it's never going to be,, in the order that you want it to be in, but eventually that puzzle is going to come together, and you're going to have that picture that you always wanted, and I'm still putting those pieces in. it's an ongoing, ongoing journey and ongoing love that I'm I would never, ever give up
Max: of the three slight side questions, the triple threat that you are, which is the strongest
Natalie: Theater. I am dramatic, right? theater acting,
Max: acting strength. That's the strength, unless it's with toast and butter, then maybe love a bit of bread as.
Mel: Yeah, noted, next time some toast is ready to go.
Max: Mel's question, and it resonated, because something you said in there is that you mentioned that perhaps the group of friends that you had, and there's a point where you had to almost slow down and without casting a negative connotation on it, I thought that was quite interesting. I wanted to understand a bit more about that. Where you were, you said applauding from the sidelines, but you also hinted towards this. You were going at a pace or a place, and perhaps some of your friends weren't, or talks through a little bit about that, I can resonate with in a bit.
Natalie: Yeah, when you're younger, you're trying to do everything and anything, and also the world is your oyster. And I was younger, I didn't have any children or anything, nothing was stopping me apart from myself.,, I've got a great group of friends where most of us are performers and actors, singers and stuff that. You're not out. Must be wild., we're dramatic. charades with us is,, it's a serious game, and we act our pants off when we're we're doing it. But sometimes it is hard when you,, you watch, and I've got family members who are, performers and stuff that, and you're, they're getting their their their moment, and you're happy for them, but obviously part of you is, what about me, thing? And you get to a point where you're, you I don't even think it's readdressing your priorities. you start other things start to become important as. whether it's the first time you meet someone and you fall in love. And I had that moment where I was,, my boyfriend was the most important thing, and then you have children, it's, the children are the most important thing and, the love of stuff still is there, but there's other things that match it, or maybe take it over in different parts and different times of your life., no, no. Year is the same. No, no, experience stays the same, the most., the most things that happen are always change. Change is the thing that happens the most, whether that's your mindset, whether that's your situation., yeah, it took me a while to be happy with that. I'm not on screen, I'm not on stage every single day, but I realized that, this is the route I'm taking, and eventually it might happen, but it might not, but it's, because look at everything else that you've got.
Max: It feels like there's something there still. Is there an ambition or appetite there at some point to go back in? And what would scratch that itch? What would that look like if you were to go back, or even when the next phase or career journey? I
Natalie: I don't know, because I look at when I mentioned in my I've talked about people Viola Davis, and she got really big in her 40s. Samuel Jackson got really big in his 40s. Oprah Winfrey got really big in their 40s. I'm in my 40s. I'm,, this is a decade. This is it the moment the 40s is now. I'm, I'm literally looking around,, is it gonna hit me now? But no,, it's nowadays, content is being consumed in a different way than it was back in the day. creating more Netflix it's given more opportunities to people to perform, to be behind the scenes, in front of the screens, wherever you want to be. I'm always looking and,, nice little Netflix series would be great.
Mel: Manifest it. Get it out. Manifest it. Bring it on. And we can't, we can't gloss over the fact that a certain Tina Turner was mentioned in your letter, because,, we need the backstory. How did you come to be dancing with Tina?
Natalie: And it was a audition that I went to. I given birth, by the way. this was this was 11, about 11 years ago, and I given birth, and my agent's, oh, there's an advert for Tina Turner. And I was, oh, but I've given birth. He's, Oh, you need to go in and,, see what happens. I thought,, whatever. And it was,, it was, it was, 5000 pounds. I was,, I need that money. I went to the audition, and there was all these dancers,,, legs up here. And I thought, oh, no, this isn't, this isn't me. I can't., my breasts were really big from,, breastfeeding, that could feel the milk coming in. And I was,, it's fine. And I remember dressing up in, a 70s, 60s outfit. And I thought,, fake it. And I'm a big Faker,,, fake it till you make it. That's,, I'm a true believer on that. And they said,, can you do some dance moves? And I was thinking, No, I can't, you didn't tell us to prepare. And I literally did,, some very 70s movements that I could think of. And I got the part with, three other dancers, and I felt such a fraud, because I thought, I'm not a dancer, but I'm going to fake it until I make it. They flew us over to Switzerland, and when I say I was with three other dancers, they the the director said,, this is the dance we want you guys to emulate. can you we'll give you,, maybe a couple hours. Can you go over there and can you,, practice the dance and format it and all that stuff. we were,, we went to the corner. Luckily, one of the girls, she's, a choreographer as, she was taking us through it. And I kept saying to them, I've had a baby,,, I'm not a dance, I feel I'm a fraud. They're, No, no, you got this. And they were,, it's boom cat, 123, boom cat. And I was thinking, boom cat, what are you talking about? But they were they were graceful, and they were,, very, very nice with me in that situation. And yeah, we learned the dance. Tina Turner came on set, and when she comes, it's this, this calm goes across the set. And she talked us through the dance and what she was thinking while she was dancing, it back in the day with her ikettes, and she absolutely, was the most amazing, amazing woman. We danced for her. She danced with us. It was, it was a surreal moment that I'll never, ever forget. Really cool.
Max: What a highlight. And what else things that's that's up there? What else would you then say that there's been real milestone moments, and we'll go in admit a little bit more into the red bull side of things. But over the last 20 years or, what other moments would you say sit up there with Tina that you think, gosh, that was amazing.
Natalie: I did a thing called the 24 hour plays at the Old Vic with Jeff Goldblum and let's say Patrick Swayze, but it's not Patrick Swayze, it's Kevin Spacey, and that was really cool. And that was, that was a real highlight in, I was again, 2122 finished drama school and got to be at the Old Vic. I've had some really nice theater acting moments. Tina Turner was,, probably one of my one of my most famous and most exciting moment, because it's, it's Tina Turner, and how often are you ever going to be next to something? It's being next to Beyonce. It's, When are you ever going to have a proper icon? And she,, she's,, she's proper. though that moment was probably one of mine in terms of,, theater acting career, one of my one of my highlights out and also, because I gave birth, I gave birth, and I left my child in England with her dad and my family and flew to Switzerland. this was,, the first time that I'd,, also been away from my kids. I was there with milk. Still, I was still having to express my milk doing that as a young mum as, was pretty crazy that I would even be doing that. But, I said, I'm a go-getter. I'm, if I say yes, you're going to do it, cool. Say yes., do it.
Mel: In that sense of being in the right place and opening up opportunities
Natalie: to be at the right place, at the right time, when you think about anything that we do, whether it's with corporate work, whether it's theater, whether it's anything, it's all about being at the right place, at the right time, and having that right door opened for you., it's, it's it's a matter of luck and chance, but you have to put yourself in those situations to get the luck and to get the chance.
Max: I wanted to add to that. I'm a firm believer in capitalizing on those. Because you can have opportunities to come up but not realize it until you put yourself forward, it into them and take control of them. that's something that happens quite a bit, but people perhaps don't realize.
Natalie: When you're younger, you should say yes, say yes. Because especially when you're trying to figure out what you're doing with your life, and it you're at that age where anything can happen, but you have to say yes to let anything happen. And it's a great time to do that. It gets harder as you get older, your boundaries are set, and you're,, I said yes to that I shouldn't have, but you wouldn't know that you should not have if you didn't say yes in the first place. you've got to, you have to put yourself out there. You have to say yes, to know what you and what you don't. And I always say that. Say that to my kids all the time when they're, Oh, I didn't want to do sit, sit, do it, see what happens. And then now, at least you've done it, and you can go,, in future, I'm not going to do that, or in future, I'm going to do more of
Mel: that. Yeah, you learn from it. Oh, without a doubt. let's come to how you found yourself at a drinks company in a temp role. What? What was going on that caused you to go and get a temp role? Was that as a subsidy to acting? Was that a new desire
Natalie: As a jobbing actress? That's what you do. You have a side job. And temping is the easy side job that you could do if it's non committal. you don't feel you have to. You're not there all the time. It's a temp role. The company that I was with was a cool company. It was called secretaries, plus, at the time, I don't think they're around anymore. And Judy, Judy guy, her name was, and she was, she loved acting, and she would always hire actors and to go into these corporate roles, because she knew that we could turn it on, and it was a reception role. she would send me to BHS and Arcadia and all these different corporate roles where there was, it was quite boring in some of these jobs, because back in those days, I sounded old, but back in those days, there was no real internet thing. you'd have a screen, but the most you'd have is solitaire on the screen that you could play. And you'd have a switchboard, and sometimes the phone would ring, and then you would send it to whoever. that was, that was reception. You'd welcome people in. And then one time she was, oh, there's a small drinks company. You'll be fine,, do what you usually do. I was, Yeah, that's fine. I went there. It was called Red Bull. Had never, I don't think I'd even heard of the drink back then. It's 20 years ago, and I was on reception, and it was a great job. And I would go there, and then I would go and then do a theater show, or go and do something else. And then they would always call me back, because I got along with everyone. And this is, this is the positivity, the communication skills, which is always really good that actors usually have. They get along with everyone, even if they don't. They pretend to and they act they do thing and and I had a great relationship with the other girls on reception, with the other people that worked there. It was, and it was a real cool job to do. whenever they needed a temp. They would ask for me, and that's basically how my role started there. as a temp, in and out. I'd go and do a theater show, go and do some Shakespeare, and then I'd come back if they call me. it was, it was that for about six, seven years.
Mel: Wow. Your first stint at Red Bull was very transactional. It was in and out.
Natalie: Itwas in and out it was it was temping, it was reception, it was admin, very but they would always ask for me, and I was always available, because you're a jobbing actress for six or seven years, for about six or seven years, wow,, six or seven years, I did that. I had children., I was, I had my first child, and then when I had my first child, I was, I'm gonna need something a bit more,, sustainable, because this shopping acting, acting thing is, is, is not the easiest, and I need some money. And I was a PA for a little bit there again, temping. And the HR guy was, oh,, there's a role here. It's a PA role, and it's full time, and I really think you should,, take it, because they love you. And I was, Oh, I don't know, because Spielberg's gonna call and,,, I feel Jurassic Park is around the corner, around the corner guys,, I can feel it in my bones. It's Hollywood is gonna call me. And,, if I take this role, then they might not call. Then they were very much,, don't worry about it.,, it's fine, it's cool. I didn't take the role, and another girl took the role, but she was bad at the role that they got rid of her within a week. And then there's, Natalie, please. Can you come if Spielberg calls, he calls, and we'll figure that bit out. But we need,, someone you to, to be there. They love you much, you be great. And I was, oh,, it's fine. I'll do it because I've got this baby as. I do need something a bit more substantial. I came in as, an assistant, a PA to the marketing director,
Mel: and at that time, when you came in as a peer in admin, because I love these routes into companies, because when people see your title and what you do now, they're, What was that career path? And you must have always imagined it and what was and it's fascinating when you hear the route in. did you have any ambitions at that point of, Oh, I could see myself doing something in culture or marketing, or I could bring some of this thing that I'm passionate about into this work. Or were they two separate worlds,
Natalie: Two separate worlds, two separate worlds. I at first saw it as a means to get money. It was very transactional for me. I was, Oh, I could be a PA. I could put on this, this hat and this role, and I was, Oh, I'm a PA., it was almost an acting job for me,,, an episode from Mad Men or something where I'm, Yeah, I'm, I'm the PA., no, I, I took it on as, a an easy role to do. I was, Yeah, can organize stuff. Remember, I'm the oldest sibling. I organized stuff. I've got this. I've got this. I know how to organize a diary. I know how to,, book drinks and book restaurants and all that stuff., this, is this what I do? This is easy thing, and also it's a real nice environment. why not do it in an environment that I, I get along with everyone, but, and this is what I always say to younger people as, that, that post room to manage a pipeline. sometimes they don't get it, and they sometimes feel, oh, when they come out of university, they should be a manager straight away. And, no, you need to learn loads of things before you get to that manager role., I had a temping job where I worked at a funeral home, and I was sorting out urns., that's the that's the start I had where I was, literally, it was the temping agency said, Oh, it's called Creme de creme. And I thought, Oh, it's a bakery. I thought, this is lovely., Creme de creme sounds great donuts. I literally thought it was a bakery and I was going to be doing some admin on the bakery side. I got there, and I was, It's not called Creme de creme. It's called Creme and SEM, which is crematorium and cemetery. And I was not,,, it was a bakery, wasn't it?, it wasn't quite the one that I was thinking of, but I had to sort I had to sort out ashes and urns. And you were dealing with urns to earn,
Natalie: Literally, had to sort out all these different things. And when about those jobs that I did, it builds character. And this is what I wouldn't talk about. Say yes, because now I know,,, that wasn't the that wasn't that wasn't for me, that wasn't for me, but at least I did it. At least I've got that story, and at least, I know where my boundaries lie.,, I'm not going to do that again, and, next time, I'm going to look into what the company is first before I say yes to that. it's all learning. But no, I would never, I never put the two together, but I would always see,, the culture team at Red one be, Oh, they're cool. They're cool. They know what they're doing. They work with artists. It's, I always used to look up to them and be, Oh, that's really cool, what they're doing, but I never saw it for myself. I was there as the team assistant, supporting everyone, making sure that things were booked, that diaries were aligned, and that presentations were sent over.
Max: It's interesting, something that we've seen in that the ambition is there, which is amazing. And a lot of people have huge ambitions, but in some cases, the expectation either of themselves or the speed in which they could reach some of these heights is perhaps misaligned, and I don't want to ever dampen anyone's ambition. You can do whatever you really want to. However, there is this thinking that, right?, I've done that for two years, four years, I'm here and there, and off I go, to your point. How do you address that and see that within the organization, and as a second point, at what point in that early stage career do you think,, no, this is home for me for a while, and I'm going to see what this is as a career.
Natalie: When, especially when you're starting out, everyone has that plan A. Don't know they have your you have your plan a at 22 I'm gonna do this. At 23 I'm gonna do this, and by the time I'm 25 I'm gonna do this. And I would say maybe there's 6% of the population where their plan works. But that plan B, that plan C, is what is going to happen. Plan A can still be there. Is what I talk about, but Plan B and Plan C is probably what's going to happen the most. And you can find ways to integrate your plan A, your plan B, the Plan C. know that it's not going to be linear. know that it's going to weave. It's going to take different things. What's your second question?
Max: At what point did you believe from from the temp into the PA role and things that you go, love it here, or this is now what I'd to do as a career,
Natalie: I started to enjoy it much, and it really, and a part of me was, oh, but remember, you're an actress. Maybe you want to do acting. I said, Yes, Natalie, you want to do acting, but you really enjoy this as. you're really enjoying getting to know about, what marketing is. You're really enjoying the creativity of it. Because I'm a creative I'm an ideas person. And, what was great about working in this environment is that they listened to ideas. Everyone's ideas. Didn't matter where you were in the food chain, they wanted to hear ideas. And for a while, I was the marketing assistant, and I did that role for about three years. And then I really, really loved entrepreneurship, and they had this social innovation arm of the business that they were looking at, and they were, you'd be great at social innovation. I said, Yes. I said, Yes, yes, let's do that. And I did social innovation for a little while, and then obviously COVID happened, and there wasn't any events happening and things that. And they're,,, let's do some internal stuff. Let's look at, what we can do internally with this office and the space and designing and stuff. I said, Yes, I'm not a designer, but I said, Yes. And then it was,, culture. We're really bringing culture back after COVID. We want to do more things in music, and we love your creativity. what do we think about culture? I said, Yes,, and this is what. Say yes. especially when you're not sure where things are going, and especially when you want to do more, I kept saying yes. And each time I learned something, I got new mentors, new people in my corner, people wanted to see me win. Then something else came along. I said yes, then something else came along. I've kept saying yes to the things that were offered to me, and that's where I've ended up.
Mel: And does it feel you've ended up in a space where you are able to bring much of your passion from outside the culture side of things into this world? And does that feel the right place for you, or are you waiting for the next adventure?
Natalie: I love it here. I absolutely love it, and absolutely, everyone in our team brings their outside in, and that's what makes it good, because you have that network, and you can call on this person and then that person, and this person, and that's what that's how you build culture. It can't be in silo. It can't be this little team. It has to be the community around you that brings things to you because they know you. And that's why it's important to have diversity in rooms, because,, people enjoy talking to other people, networking, and that's how you get into some of these spaces, because you knew someone who knew someone who knew someone is and that's why networking is important, because you've got to almost know someone, and that's with everything. And it doesn't matter what it is, whether that is in acting, whether that's in corporate, whether that's in school, you have to you have to build that network in order to help you get to where you need to be.
Mel: And you say in your letter that you ended up speaking in rooms you never thought you'd be in. Yeah. can you give us some examples of that and what that, what that was in
Natalie: This room here, to be here, talking about this journey, I never thought I'd be here talking about what I'm doing, but this is exactly an example being in a room like this. I only ever imagined being on a stage doing my thank you Oscar speech.
Mel: And have you got it prepared? Oh, I've practiced it.
Natalie: I've practiced it many times. I thank God. I thank God for some good cameras and lights. I thank everyone, and I even thank Red Bull in my speech for getting me through those years. I've practiced it a few times, because that's me manifesting, and that's me, hopefully bringing it into fruition. But, yeah, being in rooms this, even being on TV, or anything, anything this, I didn't imagine. I only had that plan A, and then you have to go, Plan A is not working. What else am I looking at?
Max: You are an exceptionally positive person, and I've got two parts here and there, probably a bit more neggy Nancy, but you say, yes, what do you say no to? Where's the line? And then equally, what is something that perhaps? Happened that hasn't been positive, and how did you react?
Natalie: I will be very honest, I find it hard saying no. I find it very hard, even when it's to the detriment. Do you find things or because, and then you end up taking on too much, and that's where burnout happens, because you didn't say no. And it's a, I don't know if it's a very British thing, that we're very polite and we're, Yes, I'll do that thing. it's something that I am learning more and more, because I don't have enough time to do everything and learn how to say no. But it is. it's hard for a lot of people to be negative and say no to a lot of things, and this is when you start to learn about boundaries. And that and that comes with age, and it comes with experience. Although the new generation, they're a bit more on the nose of it, and they'll, they'll say, say no, but obviously I'm, I was born in the 80s, I'm very much a, that that type of I'm from that type of era, but yeah, it is, it is hard. And yeah, not everything has gone away. And not I remember when I was younger, and I got a pantomime at the Greenwich theater, and I said, Oh, I did pantomime last year. I don't want to do pantomime again. I'm sure there's, there's something better out there for me. And I said, I said no to it. But had I said yes, I would have done the pantomime. And then the girl who did get it, she then got offered a film. Now, whether that was going to be my route or not, who knows. But I was watching as she was doing a lot more. I thought, ah, if I said yes to that and not No, I might have been in a better room and a better situation where I could have leveraged something to get something else. there's always that. What if you can't live that. You have to go what you decided.
Mel: At what point along this journey did you get the idea for your business? Because you're busy at Red Bull, you're busy being a mum, you're considering your acting and performing career, and then you have an idea for a business.
Natalie:. Yeah, it was my children. when you have children, things definitely change, and your mindset changes. You want them to grow up in a world where things are equal and and their lives are amazing. And it's a bit that Martin Luther King speech, where he's,, I have a dream that everyone is equal and all that stuff. And you do start to think about,, how your children are growing up. And it was one Christmas. It was 2018 we were hanging Christmas decorations on our tree, and she was seven at the time, my eldest, and she said, Can Christmas angels have brown skin. I said, of course they could have brown skin. What a weird question that you would ask me. As I was hanging up a white Angel, white Santa, white Elf on the Shelf, I thought, Ah,, this is why you think angels can't have brown skin. I thought, what? It's 2018, I'll go online and spy some that that, yes, angels can be black. Went online and went on Amazon, went on Etsy, all the usual places that you would get Christmas decorations. Couldn't find any. I thought, Oh, that's a bit annoying. Found one in America, but it cost 25 pounds to get sent over here. And I thought, Oh, the actual decoration itself cost, four $4 and I'm paying $25 to get it over here. And then I spoke to my friend, and she said that she found one in a shop, but it was a white angel that had been painted black, the owner had painted it black. And I was, this, is this? Is this a thing that there are no, no decorations that look us? And we did our extensive search, couldn't find any. And we had this idea. We're,,, why don't we make a few? Now, I'm not a designer, I can't draw, but I'm a creative. This is what I talk about with I have ideas, and I'm a creative and I'm positive, I'll make I'll make things happen. And we walked into 19 with a passion of purpose to make sure that that question, can angels have brown skin? Is never asked again by anyone, whether it's a child who's black, a child who's white, whatever the race is. That is when we're talking about angels, and we're talking about,, I don't know when the last time you saw an angel, but we're talking about things that are almost a part of our imagination, that,, no one really knows what an angel looks like. It could be a feather, it could be a light, or it could be an actual person with wings. Who knows. But that image should be diverse, because we're talking about,, a mythical creature, almost. And that was the birth of our business. My daughter tells me this every year, that I'm the reason why we have this business. And I'm, yeah, go do your homework. Go away. But yeah, that was, that was the catalyst, that was the start, and then we've built it ever since. And that was in 2019 was our first year.
Max: It's amazing. you've then gone on to love to hear about the Dragon's Den experience as, but, but it. In, in doing that. How's that been with Red Bull? Have they been supportive of this side hustle? What's that dynamic and conversation been
Natalie: Especially at the beginning, because it was such a side hustle, it was a bit on the side. And because it was 2019 and we went into 2020 which was COVID, then we went into 2021 which was still COVID. Those first three years, most people were at home, doing half of their job because they couldn't fully do their job. And baking bread and making banana bread. And I wasn't making banana bread, I was building the business. That was my baking bread moment. Of,,, we'll, I'll build this whilst doing Red Bull. What was really nice about a lot of the people at Red Bull is that they always want to see you win, and they always want to support and also we remember we were going through this 2020, Black Lives Matter moment. Everyone wants to make sure that anyone in their company, especially the black people in the company, felt they were listened to, felt that they were heard, felt,, they're an inclusive company. And even before Black Lives Matter, I always felt that with rebels anyway, I felt very included. But also the managers are normal people. They're normal people who are,, normal,, I never, ever felt guilty., I have some friends who are, Oh, I can't go to my kids sports day because,, I can't get the time off work. I'm, but did you ask?, yeah, we asked, and they said, No, I'm, but you have to have that work life balance. And that was always the really good thing about Red Bull, that they give you that work life balance. And it's very important for them that you have that work life balance. And I remember when I told my manager that I was going on dragons. Then he was excited. He was, right? We're gonna set up a fake Dragon's Den for you. And he got the Head of Brand, the head of sales. He got, literally got a panel of all the heads to do a mock run with us on,, what, what a Dragon's Den panel would be? And it was really, really fun. And they would ask us questions, me and my business partner, if we didn't have the answer, they'd be,, the root of my route to market would be and, and this is what I talk about with,, having great people, great mentors on your side. Obviously, we're talking about Christmas decorations. If I was trying to launch an energy drink or something that was a bit more competitive, they might have been a bit more, this is a conflict, but it's Christmas decorations. Everyone loves Christmas. It's Christmas decorations. There's no conflict there at all. And in the same way that the majority of people that work in any job have a passion, whether that is that they go to the gym all the time, whether they play rugby on the side, they play football on a Sunday, whatever that piece is that you still do it. this was my, this was my football on a Sunday. This is my, my baking bread moment. This is what it is. It's a side hustle that has, it's grown, I'm not gonna lie, and at one point I will have to make that decision of,, am I going full or am I? What am I doing? And that's for both me and my business partner to make that decision. But right now, it's manageable, but, I said, change is inevitable. Nothing stays the same, we have to go over the flow of things.
Mel: And what was it being on Dragons Den and that
Natalie: horrendous. It was horrible. I was in heels as. Never again, because you're in there for two hours. what you see on screen is 15 minutes, but you're in there for two hours, and they are grilling you about your numbers, about there's much that you don't see. And we went in there,, we're business women. Of course, we need to wear a suit and heels. Never again will I do that to myself? when we watch it back, we don't negotiate at the end, and we always talk about, why didn't we negotiate? Is that because we wanted to get out? Wanted to get out and we wanted to take those damn shoes off? And I was, Yeah, we wanted to leave. I say, it's horrendous. And this is coming from someone who loves to be on screen, who loves,, the cameras and stuff. But it was, it was a lot. It was I when people go and when I watch it, and people have gone there by themselves, and they're doing I'm, how have you done that by yourself? I was grateful that had my business partner, Alison, by my side, because we bounced really off each other. She did all the numbers. I did all the storytelling. We know what our strengths are, and we really played to our strengths. And then the first dragon said no, and then the second dragon said no, and then the third dragon said no. And I was, Oh God, this isn't going. This is, I thought this was going to be a I thought this was going to be a win. I thought, this is a great idea. And then, we pushed on. We really pushed the story. And then Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden were, what, I want to be a part of this. And that was, that was the shift. And it changed everything for our little business that was in our kitchens. It enabled us to do much more.
Max: Do they still play an active role? Yes, do they? Yeah, Deborah
Natalie: more than Peter, but yes, they are very active. Deborah's. Deborah's have their phone numbers. I do. Yeah, it's, it's quite good with Deborah as., if you, if you message her, email her,, Oh, could I, can I talk to you about something? Yes, darling, let's chat tomorrow.. She's on it, which I absolutely love. And yeah, they're good. We can use their names to get into places. And that's the thing. As two black women, there are certain doors we couldn't get through at all. Couldn't get through. We were knocking on them, knocking on the high street doors, knocking on Sainsbury's, knocking on John Lewis, knocking on garden centers. Could not get that door opened at all. Men on Dragon's Den, you've got Peter and Deborah on your side. Let's have a chat. Let's talk, and it opened it for us, because there's a glass ceiling in this country that,, black women in general, we, we don't get investment. We,, they don't see us. We can't get into their rooms. And you have to have allies on your side to open those doors for you, otherwise they're always going to remain shut.
Max: And with that. And the more you talk about these things, you think, oh my gosh, that's a career, that's a career, that's a career, and any one individual will be quite happy and fulfilled and successful in having one of those. You have the podcast as. And you mentioned in your letter about pies, and almost forgetting the original pie. I call almost the popcorn effect of things popping off. You're,,, of the pies,, is there any that you're particularly proud of? Then equally, of those, where do you feel the the passion and the future for you sits in, lies
Natalie: I’m proud of all the pies. I'm not gonna lie. And they're not perfectly baked pies. They all need a lot of work. They're going in on the pie.
Natalie: It's there. Yeah, they're not perfectly baked. And some are apples, some are cherries. I'm proud of everything that I've done. If I don't enjoy it, then I'm not going to do it. And I enjoy using all these different parts of my brain, of my creativity. with red bought I love being creative. I love coming up with new ideas. I love championing people and getting them into rooms that they couldn't get open for them,, to work in this amazing company, and being able to open that door for someone who never thought that they'd even have a chance to get in. And that's how I feel also with March Muse's business, those doors have been opened for us by people of color, by allies who also want to open that door, and they're in that situation. I always think it's really important to talk about people in rooms that they're not in, that you are, you're saying a name. And I always pray that someone's talking about me in a room that I'm not in yet, whether that's for my business, whether that's for an acting role, whether that's something to do with Red Bull, that they're talking about me in a positive way in a room that I'm not in, that I'm going to find out a bit later, because that's what I do. I talk about people in rooms that they're not in to try and bring them in. I love all the pies - Acting, I'm gonna go back to that. That's the biggest pie that I will always have, and that's the one that I love the most. But I'm very proud of March muses. I'm very proud of the work that I did and had been doing at Red Bull. I'm very proud of my children. Those are all the things that I love doing.
Mel: One of the things that there's a line in your letter that I'm absolutely stealing, by the way, which is, and I might not recommend, remember it quite perfectly. But you said legacy is not about what you leave behind. It's about what you're growing in front of your eyes. And I thought that was beautiful. And if your girls get the chance to read that, I'm even welling up that. It's an amazing thing. And you get this real sense from what you've said of this life. And again, you mentioned it in the letter. Yeah, you dreamed of this life, and you're creating it and able to really embrace all your passions and all that diverse creativity in building a business and being a Red Bull. it's, it's wonderful to hear somebody that has been doing what they've been doing for long and is still passionate about it
Natalie: You’ll make me cry now I am my grandparents while these dreams come true, my grandparents came over on the Windrush and what I'm doing now, they could even imagine that their grandchildren would be doing all the things that they're doing. And when about the decisions that they made at 20, age 20, to leave Jamaica and come over to the UK on the Windrush. I am their wildest dreams come true, and that makes me proud to have that as my heritage. yeah, as
Max: the only one who's not bawling for a change, which is quite a nice chain. we're nearing the end, and what I wanted to ask, and you mentioned your grandparents, and I'm sure they're incredibly proud. I'm sure your parents are incredibly proud of what you've achieved and continue to achieve as, who have been the key people along the way for you, in terms of. Mentors of influence, things that have helped. And at what point have they really been that mental figure?
Natalie: There's different people at different stages and different stages of my life. There's that saying it takes a village to raise a child, and that is more true than I've ever experienced as in, it takes a village to have a career. It takes a village to,, to bring your dream to fruition. It always takes a village and having those key people around you. I always look at my mum. She's been the village, she's been the mentor, she's been the bank, she's been the,, the taxi driver, she's been the advisor, she's all those things. And as mums, that's what you generally are. When about careers, about some of the managers that I've had, especially at Red Bull, who have seen me and wanted to, wanted me to do at Red Bull, but also wanted me to do outside of Red Bull as. And it's, it's, it's important having people that in your corner who want to see you, see you in and then about, at school, I went to the BRIT School, and we had a teacher called Adrian packer who was,, this amazing musical theater teacher, and he was fun. And he brought out everything, out of everyone. And I remember him specifically as a, a influential part of me growing up and me learning about acting and myself. And whenever I see him, sometimes I haven't seen him for a while, but when I did, I was, Thank you. You, you literally changed much for me, and I'm excited because my daughter, who's age 14, is about to start the BRIT School in August, and the school's gonna be sick of me, because I'm gonna be there all the time, but imagine around the house singing
Natalie: I'm, I'm excited for her to be on that journey and to meet new people and have new mentors in her life, and I hope that she has that same experience, or an even better experience than I had when I was younger. But you have different people in different stages of your life that influence, and it's a mixture of mentoring and influence and people who, who, who change. I talk about the loves of my lives, and some are here for a reason. Some are here for a season, and that is, oh, that is key to remember. sometimes we, when we have heartbreak, we get,, down, and, we have to,, you learn through everything.
Mel: , I already feel you've given people many pearls of wisdom and advice, but we are coming to the big question, which is the piece of advice that you'd love to give your younger self, and it's the question that we ask everybody at the end of this podcast and the whole premise of the podcast. I have got a picture of you at 22 in your finest. I'm going to hand this over to you. Where were you at this point, I
Natalie: was in Brixton, living with my best friends. We really thought we were, there was four of us. We thought we were Sex and the City. We thought we were, these girls about town, going out in Brixton, dating, drinking Cosmos, not that we knew what cosmos were. And we really thought we were the bee's knees. And we're about to, we're about to go out in this picture. Yeah, I was quite happy. There are no kids, no man, living life, living your best life, my best life.
Mel: What is the piece of advice you'd give to 22 year old Natalie?
Natalie: When youasked me this question, it was really, I was, What am I going to tell this person? And I I heard this saying, and it was that you never lose in life. You can only win or learn. And I thought, yeah, that's that you can't win or lose. Lose doesn't happen. It's what you learn. if something didn't go your way and you felt you lost,, it's a learning experience, which I've been talking about all the time. yeah, when you haven't got what you wanted, especially when it's an audition or a heartbreak or whatever, you learn from it, and then you become a better person because you've learned from whatever that loss was.
Mel: Thank you very much., yeah, many piles of wisdom, much to take, and we have absolutely loved having you on the sofa. Thank you for having me
Max: been amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Elevate operates, thanks to the generosity of our partners and supporters. See the show notes to find out more about them.
Mel: Together, we're changing lives, careers and the events industry for the better. Our producer is Peter Kerwood, and our sound and mix engineer is Matteo Magariello.
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Together, we’re changing lives, careers and the events industry for the better.