Episode 15
Nina Ferguson
Co-founder and Chief growth officer, INCA Productions
ON THIS EPISODE OF ‘JUST ONE THING ’:
Our guest on this episode is Nina Ferguson the co-founder and Chief Growth Officer of INCA Productions.
INCA Productions is a global events agency with head offices in London and New York. They serve as a strategic partner and creative studio, delivering extraordinary experiences for ambitious brands. With a prestigious client roster that includes Apple, Google, Moët & Chandon, Chanel, Netflix, EA Sports, and Breitling. INCA Productions is now part of the Independents Group, which boasts the best network of on-the-ground partners and operates worldwide, collaborating with some of the largest multinationals in the world.
Nina says if you're looking for an answer just trust your instincts because you already have the answers within you.
Watch Nina on YouTube or listen to her on Spotify or Apple podcasts
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Dear Nina aged 23 (1993)
I’m writing to you from the future. Don’t be surprised – you’ve always believed in this sort of thing. I’ve come back to give you some advice and share some news: all of your dreams so far have come true.
You are currently in Zimbabwe, having been there for many months after graduating, which is where your parents are currently living. You’re about to move to London.
I know you're feeling devastated right now. You've spent four years studying Languages and Criminology at Nottingham University, but you haven't landed your dream job at Amnesty International, working to save political prisoners in South America. Listen to your father when he says you're too hot-headed and idealistic for that role. He's right – there's something better in store for you.
Don’t settle for a boring corporate job. You know it won’t suit you, and you’re right – television is where you should start.
You’re going to receive 250 rejection letters from TV production companies because you lack work experience, aside from running your own club nights at university. You’ll need to borrow money to take up an internship at MTV, which you managed to land by convincing someone to give you a chance. Do it – it will be the most exhilarating four years of your life. You’ll be inspired by the vibrant, creative environment, making exciting content, and meeting the biggest music stars on the live music show you’ll work on. Those long 13-hour days won’t bother you, because you’ll love what you do. Pay attention, Nina – this is the blueprint for a creative workplace where people love their jobs, feel valued, and produce incredible work. This experience will become the foundation for what you will create at INCA.
Over the years, you will take on various freelance jobs with other production companies, and eventually, you’ll meet Charlotte, your future business partner and friend for life, while working on the British Fashion Awards (which will still be an INCA client years later). You will trust your instincts and start a business together, forming INCA. Don’t hesitate to take out that bank loan to cover rent and do those extra freelance jobs so you can focus on building INCA. It’s the right move – it will change your life forever.I’m here to tell you that this journey won’t be easy, but you’ve never been one to shy away from hard work. Here’s some advice: trust your gut. It will guide you through the good times and the tough ones. Trust yourself to make the right decisions, and trust your business partners and team.
You, Charlotte, and Tara will create a powerful female-founded and lead partnership. Each of you will bring different strengths to the table, allowing creativity to thrive, the business to grow, and the commercial side of INCA to run smoothly. You’ll figure out that working with corporate brands to sponsor fashion shows is a great strategy – stick with that, the diverse sector knowledge is vital for INCA in the future. Maybe consider doing fewer music videos, though!
The period of growth and learning will be immense. You’ll meet amazing clients and people at INCA, some of whom will go on to become highly successful entrepreneurs. You are right to cultivate a family-like atmosphere – people will stay, or even return. This environment will be perfect for you as a mother, and the flexibility and understanding you offer will be ahead of its time, setting the standard for the future.
Don’t panic when you can’t make payroll after a fashion brand goes bust. Your bank manager will help you navigate the cash flow issues. He’ll be an invaluable friend – stay close to him.
The financial crash in 2008 will shake your business, but you’ll be adaptable and come through it. In 2020, a global shutdown will temporarily crush your London and New York operations, but again, trust your instincts, take care of your teams, and pivot. You’ll emerge stronger than ever.
Finally, when you begin searching for a like-minded growth partner to expand globally, trust your gut again. You’ll meet many intriguing businesses that won’t be the right fit. Remember, your values and culture must align. Eventually, you’ll find an incredible group – one that doesn’t exist yet – but when you do, you’ll know. It will feel like coming home.
Nina, work hard, keep an open mind and be kind to everyone who comes through INCA’s doors. If I could leave you with one final piece of advice, just as your Father would tell you to “trust your gut”: trust your instincts. You already have the answers within you, and you’ll make the right choices.
Much love,
Your Future Self
Nina (2024)
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Mel: Our guest on this episode is Nina Ferguson, the co-founder and CEO of Inca Productions. Inca Productions is a global events agency with head offices in London and New York. They serve as a strategic partner and creative studio, delivering extraordinary experiences for ambitious brands with a prestigious client roster that includes Apple, Google, Moet & Chandon, Chanel, Netflix, EA Sports, and Breitling.
Max: Inca Productions is now part of The Independents Group, which boasts the best network of on-the-ground partners and operates worldwide, collaborating with some of the largest multinationals in the world. Nina says if you're looking for an answer, just trust your instincts, because you already have the answers within you. Welcome to the podcast, Nina.
Mel: A big welcome to the sofa Nina, thank you for joining us.
Nina Ferguson: Thank you so much for having me!
Max: So for the wider world, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and also a kind of quick recap of Inca.
Nina Ferguson: I am one of the founders of Inca, and I would say that the creative production agency has offices now in London and New York and just recently joined the amazing The Independents group, which is a group of 17 creative agencies across the world. Very proud to sit alongside them. I think they're some of the best companies in the world. I think we've earned the right to be there. We do work with, I think, some of the best luxury fashion and lifestyle brands in the world, from Chanel to Loro Piana, automotive, and drink brands; I mean, they are the holy grail in the brand world. And we know we love what we do. And it's not been easy; it's not been a short ride. Let's put it like that, but we're still here. We're still standing, so very happy to sit and have a chat with you.
Mel: So, we asked this to all of our guests, but that process of writing a letter to yourself and trying to capture that journey from somewhere between sort of 19 to 25 people usually put to the modern day. What was that like, going back over such a career in such a moment and starting in Zimbabwe via MTV to where you are now?
Nina Ferguson: It's really interesting to self-reflect, isn't it? Because obviously, well, I think all of us certainly listen to a million podcasts. I listen to the all-in podcast. I listen to the diary of the CEO. I listen to, how I started this? So I listen to a lot of people, and obviously they're incredibly impressive entrepreneurs you're listening to, so at no point do everything. I'm one of those. So you don't necessarily sit back and reflect.
So it's like an out-of-body experience; if I'm honest that I'm sitting here, you're asking me that question. But it is also very interesting because we're now in a position where we're getting young people coming to the office and saying, I'm starting my journey. So, then sit and think about the start of the journey and how hard it is. It's really good, because you're in a position of great empathy, because you then remember how hard it is to start out, how hard it was in the beginning, and you then have to take the time out and think, Oh, okay, I've done. It's been an interesting journey.
Max: Do you think it's just okay? Do you think that you've achieved, or are you at where you thought you could be or should be?
Nina Ferguson: Interesting question, isn't it? Professionally, I'm really proud of what Charlotte and Tara and myself have achieved. I love what we've created. I love the culture that we've created. I love we've created a family, and we've created a family that spans multiple generations. We've got children that have come out. We've created best friends. People have created businesses. So, that's the sort of legacy, and I'm really proud of that; if I'm honest, that feels like a brilliant achievement.
Mel: Really is. And that comes through really strongly in your letter—this sense of creating an environment where people want to be and come back to this family. And you said that you learnt a lot of that in your early days at MTV and the sort of environments that you were in.
So what was it specifically in those environments that you took away to think, Well, if I ever start my business, these are the things that I want to make sure are present.
Nina Ferguson: I mean, what's interesting, if you ever meet, there are a lot of industry professionals that worked at MTV in the 90s, and it was literally the most inspiring place to be. We were all in our 20s. Everyone was creating content, literally working absolutely outrageous hours. You know, get to work at like 9 o'clock. You'd be leaving at 11 o'clock. People were working weekends.
But everyone was so inspired, and they obviously had very good light touch management people, because you were working really hard, somehow reporting up, somehow someone was managing what you were doing. But you didn't feel like it was; you felt like you had freedom. You felt you had creative control. You felt empowered, and everyone was excited and everyone was collaborating. I mean, it really was an amazing place to be. And actually, I made some really great friends there. So it was a very positive environment to be in. And I did think this is exactly what I want to create myself.
Mel: And that's sense of freedom and being inspired. I guess you're working in a creative agency, and just reading out even one or two of those clients from a client list is impressive. But when you're working with some of the most creative brands in the creative spaces, that environment of having freedom and creative control, how important do you think that is to getting the best results out of people?
Nina Ferguson: Charlotte is in charge of all the creative stuff, so everybody has to have a voice, which I think is really important. And she's very good at that. And actually, when we worked at MTV, no idea was a bad idea. And they are just ridiculous ideas. Now I think about it—just ridiculous ideas. But everyone's voice was welcome.
And it was sort of like a flat line structure, which is what we have at Inca as well. So people are encouraged to speak up, bring ideas to the table, and you have to keep moving forward, don't you? Because, as you said, the brands that we work with really demand it. You have to put your best creative foot forward. So it's part of the job, really, isn't it?
Max: How many people are there in the business total?
Nina Ferguson: That's about 50 of us.
Max: It's not going to that point where actually having a flat management directly; without that hierarchy, it becomes really quite tricky, especially for the culture side of things. How have you found that with each of those growth milestones of 20 or 30, or perhaps then to the 50 point, coming back out, reassessing, and doing it? How have you found that, and equally, what are the kinds of characters that meant it has had that family feel that you're striving for?
Nina Ferguson: It's interesting. It is interesting because you do have to have clear roles and responsibilities, which is what we do. There are clear areas, certainly, within the management structure and the leadership team that people take care of. We try not to be dictatorial because I really dislike that style of management and people are too afraid to speak up.
After MTV, I worked in several production companies, and there were TV production companies, and I noticed that there were people who were in charge that you just shut up and you do this and you do that, and that's just not a style that any of us adhere to. But yes, you do have to have people that are in charge of certain areas.
It isn't easy to keep the family-like atmosphere, because obviously you do have to have rules, and sometimes people don't necessarily like that, but I think that culture is so important to all of us. We have a door that's always open. We do have dogs that come in and out. We do encourage flexible working. We have lots of parents; that's the style of work that we find works for people. If people are happy, they work better.
Max: And what's the split between the three of you? You mentioned Charlotte being more creative. What's your kind of role within the business?
Nina Ferguson: I'm in charge of growth.
Max: Growth.
Nina Fergson: I'm growth. I work on the business. I'm future-facing. So I wish I could be more like Buddha; as I said to you, I'd be more present, but literally I am not. I live in the future, which is a blessing.
Max: Everyone needs someone that is in that role, thinking and looking in the future.
Nina Ferguson: But it's quite annoying because I'm not necessarily across the day to day. And if you have a meeting with me, I'll say, What about this and what about that? And then Tara will give Nina; she's sort of in charge of the commercial. And thank God for Tara, because she has steered our ship. I mean, we've come across, sort of, choppy waters; the person that has steered the ship is Tara.
Max: Interesting.
Mel: Yeah, really interesting balance between the three of you having those clearly defined roles and roles that you play. And one of the questions I asked, when we were preparing for this, was obviously your letter starts with you in Zimbabwe, having done a criminology degree at Nottingham. And we find you here some years later, running one of the most well-known with some of the best client agencies in the world. How do we get from Parkway to here? And do you think 23-year-old you are disappointed from not being able to get that job at Amnesty? Could I have ever envisaged you at this point here today?
Nina Ferguson: Well, it's interesting. It's an interesting question. I always knew that I wanted to have my own business. I did, in my heart, think that I would be saving political prisoners in South America, and I'm not saying that.
Max: What drives both of those answers—why the business ownership and then why the saving the prisoners?
Nina Ferguson: Because that was my driver at the time. I mean, I really wanted to do good for the world. I was an idealistic student, and I really did want to save the world, I think. A lot of people do, and I wanted to kind of help people.
And actually I was interested, because when I did have a conversation with my father, and I said, Dad, I feel like I should be doing some more to kind of help people. And Charlotte's really keen about helping the planet, and I just wanted to go and help people. He said, Well, you are helping people. You're helping; you're giving people jobs. You're giving people a future. So you don't burden yourself.
But it is quite far away from where I did think I was going. I mean, I was headed to South America. I studied Spanish. I mean, I really had a plan. That was my vision. I was hugely disappointed when I just... that was not the answer; that was just No, no, no, you're not coming in. We're not interested.
Max: Why.
Nina Ferguson: Well, no experience. You're 23 years old. What on Earth makes you think you're qualified to go and work and save political prisoners in South America? Literally, you're none.
Max: What drove you to want to do that? I mean, in terms of the family makeup, and I know that you were saying you've moved, and obviously the kind of location where you were in things. Tell us a little bit as to kind of what that's made up from that ambition to do that; what made you from those earlier years up to 23?
Nina Ferguson: Really big question. Well, I guess I've had a very multicultural upbringing. So, my mother's Danish. My father was born in Africa. I was born in Africa. I went to 10 different schools. I went to African schools. I lived in Taiwan for a bit. I went to a Chinese school. I went to a Danish school. I went to school in Dubai for a bit. So, I moved around a lot. I went to lots of different schools. So lots of...
Mel: What was I like about moving around so much? Because you hear, certainly in my companies that I've worked for, I've met a lot of people that have been expats, moved their families, and stuff. But what was that life like? Was that an exciting thing? Was it unsettling, moving so much?
Nina Ferguson: It's normality, isn't it? What's really interesting is everyone's life is very different, and it's obviously strange for people to comprehend. But if that's your reality, then that's what you know to be normal. I thought it was perfectly normal to move schools every 6 months to 12 months. I was, Oh, okay, we're moving again, yes, but I think it's actually good because you have to be flexible in life, don't you?
Max: And imagine if you were to then coin some of those skills, or those traits and stuff—adaptability, agility, things like that—and find those have helped you later on.
Nina Ferguson: Well, I would say those are transferable skills to running a business. Actually, I think, any business, I mean, whether it's a corner shop or it's a multinational, whatever, you have to be agile, you have to be adaptable, don't you, because the political environment that we live in, I mean, the things that we've all faced in the last, certainly, 12 years with the financial crisis and a COVID, I think you really have to, as all business owners, we've all had to face some huge challenges and had to be very agile and flexible. And face it head-on
Max: Have you got any siblings?
Nina Ferguson: Yes, I'm one of four.
Max: One of four.
Nina Ferguson: Yes.
Max: And what was that like?
Nina Ferguson: I'm the eldest.
Max: Are you?
Mel: Blazing the trial.
Nina Ferguson: Yes.
Nina Ferguson: The older, bossy one.
Max: What's the dynamic like between your siblings, and are they here?
Nina Ferguson: Yeah, I'm still the older, bossy one. Everyone's in England.
Max: And did they share any of the same? I was going to say the save the world attribute, but not really.
Nina Ferguson: No. My sister owns and runs a company called My Wardrobe HQ, which is a fashion rental business very well.
Mel: Oh, I know very well.
Nina Ferguson: Oh, do you?
Mel: Yeah. I covered the dresses quite frequently.
Nina Ferguson: Interesting. Okay, well, I'll let you know.
Mel: Yes.
Nina Ferguson: Friend of discount, obviously, yeah. So she's quite an entrepreneur. My sister's, Tina had, I think, it's her third business. So she's had two businesses that didn't work. Actually, she sold one. She sold London Boutiques, which is a far-fetch model. So, she's very entrepreneurial.
Mel: Wow. So, that entrepreneurial streak certainly runs through the family. Where did that come from? Because we were saying earlier that you always knew you wanted to run a business.
Nina Ferguson: Always.
Mel: Where does that come from?
Nina Ferguson: I have no idea. I always wanted to run. When I setup my first little mini business at university, I was running club nights, making money just doing advertising, running my own events. And it was incredibly profitable and brilliant. It was just excellent. This is brilliant. But also, I think, having done quite a lot of work experience, it is very hard when you work for other people; you do have to kind of toe the line.
Listen, whatever path you choose is not easy. Listen, I'll run my own business. I can be the master of my own destiny. I'll be able to forge a path that I want to go down, and it's not as easy as that, is it?
Max: Obviously, the money side is attractive when you're in those uni days, but is it that you'd seen someone, or someone was an inspiration, or there is someone that you thought actually, otherwise, in terms of, what they had done that sparked that? Or was it just this kind of, I don't know that the sense of autonomy and kind of independence you're like, that is the route that I want to...
Nina Ferguson: Well, I think the autonomy and the freedom have always been something that I've wanted because, ironically, I thought that I would be totally free if I had my own business. That's one of the reasons it's very ironic to think that you're totally free when you run your own business, because you're not.
But actually, I do remember working for a production company, and I do remember someone being in charge, and of us all sitting there in a production company being told to do something, and I remember thinking, Oh God, I wish I was that person. I wish I wasn't sitting here just being told what to do, and you've got to sit in that team, and you've got to sit in that team, and you're right. I did actually think it would be better to have my own business.
Max: Do a better job of it as well.
Nina Ferguson: Maybe, well, I think I remember being told what to do in a really uncharming, unmotivating kind of way, thinking that's just not the way to get the best out of people, actually.
Max: So, MTV came up as an opportunity, and that was as you were kind of figuring that out and in terms of...
Nina Ferguson: You know what? It never came up as an opportunity. And I learnt really long. I learnt so early on that nothing comes up as an opportunity. You have to create that opportunity yourself after getting a million rejection letters.
Max: Where my question was going, you're saying some 250 odd rejections.
Mel: And that's quite interesting. Almost all the guests we've had, there's been this hunger, cutting out newspaper articles, sending letters, and personal things to really drive your success and look for opportunities. So, it was really interesting to see that in your letter. So I was going to ask similar questions as Max.
Nina Ferguson: I'll never forget it. I kept a file, and I got 10 letters back after 250; 10 people wrote back, and they were all no.
Nina Ferguson: And I was like...
Max: You weren't exaggerating. It was literally 250.
Nina Ferguson: I wrote 250 letters. I thought, wow, this is amazing. And then I tried to get work experience, and it was like, Okay, so I'm now offering to work free, and I can't get that either. What have I just done? I've just spent 4 years studying. I've got no money. I want to move to London. This is a nightmare, like, what am I going to do?
And then I thought, This is ridiculous. And actually, I had a friend of mine who had a friend at MTV, and I didn't get offered an opportunity. I basically got the name of the HR, and I wrote a letter saying, Thank you so much for offering me a place as an intern and using someone's name, and I was never offered it, and I had not been offered it, and then I got a letter back saying, Oh yes, yes, and you can start on this day.
Max: Amazing, you literally forged your own.
Nina Ferguson: I did.. I literally wrote my own fake. Well done, forgetting. I literally wrote.
Max: There's not something there around manifesting or forging one's career path there.
Nina Ferguson: It's just interesting because there was it. It's so annoying when you think, I can't believe this, I'm offering to work for free. What's the matter with you?
Max: Same kind of resilience, I say, intuition, or whatever you define that as, do you think that people still demonstrate that same kind of attitude and desire? Do you feel like that's diminished a bit? Or, I suppose, because of socials and other digital kinds of capabilities, it's different ways. But do you think that core kind of effort or attitude has shifted and diluted now a little bit more or...?
Nina Ferguson: No, I don't actually, because I think people are still coming out of college, people are still coming out of university, and they're still wanting to work, and we get loads of letters from people saying, I really want to come in. I'd like to have a chat with you; please, can we come and do some running?
So people are still really wanting to do it and trying to get a foot in the door. There's loads of really clever, talented, smart, brilliant people out there that are in the same position. I mean, I don't know how hard everyone's working now; that's a different conversation, but I think there are lots of hungry people out there.
Max: What was your favourite moment whilst working at MTV?
Nina Ferguson: Well, I do remember, and it just shows my age now, doesn't it? Because I remember trying to get out of it, Holy Crescent. They used to be a live. We used to work on a live music show. So there would be rock bands, and there'd be people like, Well, I would just, the people like in excess or take that. And I remember trying to get out of the building once, and there were so many fans outside the building that I couldn't get out. And I was trying to get out the door, and one girl said to me, Are you trying to get out? And I was like, Oh, I know, I'm trying to get out. She said, You're so lucky. You've been in a building that would take part.
Mel: Larson King, that could have been me.
Nina Ferguson: Okay, that's really funny. I'm quite tired. I want to go home, but you're right. You're right, you're right. Just remember this moment. Just remember the moment and be grateful. Somebody would be giving their right arm to be in a building, or you just want to go home. Enjoy the moment.
Max: Usually, they come up through the letterbox.
Nina Ferguson: Want to go home now. We are done.
Mel: You obviously met Charlotte, and yes, what was the process that you went through to go? Ah, we both might want to start a business, and we might want to do it together. And where were the early beginnings of Inca, and how did that come about?
Nina Ferguson: Well, that's a really long story, but if I fast forward to the complete madness, that meant that we'd started Inca with no real forethought. We were sitting in Charlotte's flat, and she had a bunny rabbit, and we had a laptop, and we had a fax machine, and we were coming up with a name of Inca, and obviously, I wanted to create an empire. So, we called it Inca Innovative, Nina, and Charlotte Associates. And it's like a ridiculous Ab Fab movie, both smoking cigarettes, coming up with big names of brands we wanted to work with.
And what is pretty amazing? As Charlotte said the other day, she said, Nina, do you remember when we were coming up with a list of all the best brands we wanted to work with? And Charlotte wrote Apple because she was obsessed with Apple, and I think I wrote Chanel. And then she said, Nina, do you remember when we wrote all the names of the companies we want to work with, and now we have Apple and Chanel as clients?
She's very good—Charlotte. She really does. She's like, Just hang on a minute. Just step back. Just be grateful. Look at who we're working with. Like, do you remember we wanted to work with them? And now we do. And I'm like, You're right. Funny, the two Ab Fab, chain-smoking with the bunny rabbit running around. I'm not kidding.
Max: What were those first days, though? And to Mel's question, I suppose that point where you think right, this is now the part of wanting to build something big and then bringing those people onto those earlier stages; what was that like, and talk us through those kinds of times?
Nina Ferguson: We had no money. And so I think, like, every business, whether you write a plan or you raise money, I went to the bank and said to the bank manager, I'm going to have no salary. I need to borrow some money.
Then Charlotte raised some money to actually set up the business. We borrowed the money off a friend of hers and went, Okay, we're going to do this. We're going to get an office. We're going to do this. And then we sat down and wrote—I think I sat down and wrote the first business plan, probably one of 50. Like, this is our ambition. This is what we're going to do. Who do we know? Like, what are we going to do? What are we going to stand for? Who are we going to speak to? Where are we going to get some work from? Oh,
And then I talked to my dad, and he said, Okay, if you're going to do this, what do you know? And people start asking you questions like, How are you going to make this work? What kind of revenue are you going to generate? What are you offering? And let's talk about a budget. And let's talk about, if you're going to add stuff, how are you going to pay them?
And I was like, Oh, I mean, you start, you start being asked questions, and you start having to think, How am I going to make this work? What is my ambition? What do we stand for? Where are we going?
And then it's interesting, because then you have to think about your business, and you then have to think, Okay, well, we have to create an identity. What does that look like? And then Charlotte, because she's so creative, it's like, okay, well, I'm going to design the logo, perfect. So you design the logo, and Charlotte, you start thinking about what we look like. And then we designed her first credentials document, which, of course, was like, WHAT are we going to put in it? We haven't done anything.
Okay, let's talk about what we stand for. Yes, that's a good idea. And let's go and have a meeting. And of course, you know, our first job with just a total black that, again, was contacts. And actually, what was interesting is, well, what can I bring to the table? And Charlotte has been working in New York, so she has a lot of fashion expertise, and obviously I've been working television.
So I was like, Okay, well, I guess I can bring some structure into this in a different way. And Charlotte's like, well, I'm going to bring the creative. And I'm like, we need a businessperson. We need someone that can do budgets.
So I phoned Tara, who I worked with on television. Tara is thinking of starting a business. You're quite good with money, so can you help us? Can you do that? And Charlotte's very creative, and I'm really good at generating work because I've always been in charge of new business. So that's what we're going to do.
Nina's going to go find the work. Charlotte's going to make it look amazing, and Tara is going to kind of make it work financially. And that is how we set up. And that was the little nucleus, the Holy Trinity, the power of three. And that's how we started, and that's how we went forward to conquer.
Max: Love that. And what was the first project that you guys did?
Nina Ferguson: The first project was the Rocky Horror Show event. There was a sort of anniversary event of the Rocky Horror Show. And that was interesting. And then, of course, we did that event. And then I said, which is why I talk about music videos, because in the beginning, we were really unclear of what type of production company wanted to be.
And I was like, We should produce music videos. That's what we should do, and we should have a casting division, and we had loads of different divisions, and we thought, right, that's what we're going to do. We're going to have loads of divisions. So we started making music videos, and then we started the casting division; it was shambles, really, if I'm honest, because you end up making music videos.
A friend of mine had a record company, and we made quite a few music videos. And I think we did a big event, and we had loads and loads of flowers. And so Charlotte and I stayed up the whole night, took all the flowers out of this event, and then put them into the music video. And so the whole music video, flowers everywhere.
But when you're young, you have loads of energy; you have loads of creativity. It's amazing what comes out of people when they're young. Why you should always hire the youth, because actually, they've got loads of energy, they've got great ideas, and they do amazing things. I mean, I can't believe what we did when we were little.
Max: I love that. With the three of you, has it always been really clear cut and things in terms of the roles of, and there's often that go fast, go alone, go far, go together? There's 20-25 years you are saying—that's a long time together, kind of dealing or otherwise—what's been the kind of key to that success between the trio? Do you have any nicknames for the three?
Nina Ferguson: No, but actually, there's another managing partner that's come on board. I think it's really interesting because it's so obvious what our skill sets are and that they're not necessarily transferable. I mean, you wouldn't; there's just no way that I could do Tara's job or Charlotte's job. You just couldn't. It's so obvious what we're all good at
So no, those skills haven't transferred. Obviously, Charlotte's very good at generating new business, and I've kind of had a slightly creative mind, but obviously more sort of creatively.
So yes, those lines are slightly blurred, but I think, no, the skills are so clear that we've always stayed in our different areas. And I think that's why it works, because you need that. Those are essential components in a business, aren't they?
Mel: I think it's really brilliant to hear those stories. One that not everything starts as this amazing, incredible. We're working with Chanel on day one. I think a lot of people... You have those conversations. It's almost like, just start, it's going to be messy, and embrace that, and almost through the journey, sometimes you figure out, well, we're better at this, or this generates more revenue, or actually we enjoy this more, whatever it is. I think it's a real testament to you guys for just that; let's just figure it out. And maybe that is a bit of youth and just the energy that you have.
But also playing to your strengths. I think you hear a lot around focusing on your weaknesses and filling the gaps. And I think there's different horses for different courses, if you like, but I think sometimes you get the best out of people if you play to your strengths and actually really embrace them and play to them. And it's really interesting to hear you guys. You know, 25 years of really honing those skills, but then, I guess being able to compliment each other is really interesting.
Max: And still looking at each other.
Mel: Yeah.
Nina Ferguson: What I think is, I am married to Charlotte's brother.
Max: Are you?
Nina Ferguson: Yes.
Mel: It is in the family.
Nina Ferguson: Yes. So we are literally, like the mafia, it's we are literally.
Mel: So, when you say the family, you mean the family.
Nina Ferguson: We mean the family. We're the family. Yes, I am literally married to her brother. She is really Auntie Charlotte in my house.
Max: Charlotte is married to...
Nina Ferguson: I don't know. She hasn't married a family member; that would be very complicated. But yes, I'm married to her brother.
Mel: Wow.
Nina Ferguson: Yeah. So I flash up as Auntie Nina on her phone.
Mel: That's brilliant.
Nina Ferguson: But we have worn many different hats.
Mel: That's amazing.
Nina Ferguson: Yeah.
Mel: And Max asked about the very first event you did, and I know that if I were listening to this podcast, the questions that I'd be asking of Oh my God, tell me about all the other events, because when we read off that client list, like the Shania shows and the Breitling shows, what's it like to work with my way?
So across the years, what have been some of your favourite events, moments, or brands? But it'd be really interesting to hear some of those moments that you've created that sort of stand out.
Nina Ferguson: I tell you what I think—what is really brilliant, and it doesn't go away—is that when you get a phone call, it still happens. And I remember Charlotte saying, You're not going to believe he's on the phone. And I'll be like, Who and she goes to Chanel? Chanel has called, and they want to talk to us about doing a show. I think she's like, I can't go. I can't; yeah, it's still quite fab. And I'm like, Are you being serious? I can't believe it, Nina, and even Apple; we only started working because of the, I don't hate talk about Covid.
Mel: I mean, it's sort of the timing. Do not talk about the time.
Nina Ferguson: We don't talk about that time or the whole world shutting down. But actually we did such a massive pivot, because obviously the world of fashion took a complete nosedive. I said to Charlotte, We're going to have to pivot. We're going to have to move into different territories. We're going to have to apply our creative skills to a different sector.
And we tried really hard to get Apple, but at that point, when we got a phone call, they said, We're reviewing all agencies, and we'd like you to present your credentials. And I remember Charlotte saying to me, I just can't believe this, Nina, and it just wasn't even that long ago.
And Charlotte was like, Okay, we're going to present, Inca, what we can do and the creativity we're going to bring to the tech sector. We're going to apply everything we've learned. And then they did this big presentation, and there were loads of Americans, and weirdly, one of the people on the call was a guy called Andy Derbyshire, who I worked with at MTV. And he said, Oh, there's someone at Inca that I used to work with. I said, Oh, my God, Nina, do you think that's a sign? Do you think they're going to let us pitch? Oh, god yes.
Actually, so for us, then we got invited to pitch. So still, that is still a big moment, because we've always admired Apple as a company, as a brand, design, brand ethos, and to be, and also as a process of actually arriving at a company, where the company actually goes. Yes, we think Inca are good enough to be on that roster.
It is quite exciting still. I mean, we all still love winning pitches, so when we go against, there's a big multi agent. The one thing that Inca does, I guess a lot of companies don't do, but we do pitch, and there's nothing like winning a pitch because you have a big team of people coming together, putting the best forward, really big ideas. Everyone works really hard. So when you win a big pitch, it's really so exciting.
And a lot of the brands that we work with today, we've had to pitch for, so nothing, nothing just arrived. People don't just pick up the phone and say hi. We've got a massive job. Yes, yes, no problem. Yes. You can have it. You don't have to pitch. That just doesn't happen. So, every client that we have, we've had to pitch for, if that makes sense. So everyone is privileged that even someone like Rolls Royce, when we got put on the roster, and they said, Right, we're inviting you to pitch. It's an opportunity to be part. It is a five-year contract. And I said, Charlotte, this is amazing. And she said, I know it's amazing.
And then you go and present your work, and they go, Oh, this is really good. Oh, yes, you do understand luxury. You do understand sector. Oh, you've got good creative skills. Oh, you can operate globally. Oh, yes, okay. And you do have in-house expertise, yes. And go, okay. And then again, it's like, wow. We just want a five-year contract.
At every point, it's still completely unbelievable. I think one of the jobs that I've really loved the most is when we were sitting around in 2013 and I said, Charlotte would be amazing if we had a New York office, and maybe we should go and pitch for an event or something.
And so we put our heads together, and at the time, we're doing masses and masses of fashion, and there was no men's week in New York. And so we put a team together of people and we flew over, and we knocked on the door of the CFDA, who are the equivalent of the British Fashion Council, and we said, Hi, we're Inca, and this is what we do in London, and we would like to propose that we work with you on Men's Fashion Week, and this is how we propose to do the sponsorship. And this is what we can do, and we won it, and then we then set up our New York office off the back of it. And literally none of us could believe it. We were like, Oh my God,
Max: You didn't just win it, though; you proactively went there without any hint towards money and an opportunity and proactively invested in that to literally go there and knock on the door. Did you have a meeting?
Nina Ferguson: Well, we got a meeting.
Max: You got the meeting, then go into it, then go. We got an idea. This is it.
Nina Ferguson: Yeah. And we ran it until that small instant when the whole world shut down again, as it did with a lot of fashion; actually, it was very hard. I mean, all the designers, as you know, all the designers went under and no one had any money, and when it was illegal to do gatherings, to actually meet up, when our work became illegal.
Mel: Quite difficult for industry. And you talk about this a little bit in your letter, Nina, like it's not all plain sailing. And obviously, across a 25-year career—the pandemic, the global economic crisis—you've weathered some storms. So, give us a sense of how you navigate some of those tricky waters. I know you said before that some of you take different roles, and Tara makes sure that this ship sails through them.
But how do you face tricky waters when it's not just you; it's a company? It's a brand that you've built. It's your own business. What some of those...
Nina Ferguson: I think what was really interesting, actually, is that we all unanimously agreed that we would always, every time something disastrous happened, we were all completely aligned that if we didn't get paid, we would always pay smaller guys because we'd all been on the receiving end of not being paid. So, it was our problem, not anyone else's.
If there was a trader or a supplier, we would pay them. So we were all agreed on that. And we always agreed that if there was a financial crisis again, we would do whatever we could to keep paying everyone. So that was a priority. First financial crisis when everything you know collapsed, we're like, okay, we're going to keep paying the team for as long as we can with Covid as well. It was like, okay, the number one priority is we just make sure that everyone knows their jobs are safe, because everyone feels so unsafe. Let's make everyone feel safe. That was a number one priority.
I mean, it is really hard when you're at the beginning of your business and someone calls up and says, The business has gone under. We're not paying you. And I remember I had the hair fall out of my head. It was literally there were like 50 pieces of just a clump of hair falling out of my head. I was like, Oh my God, how are we going to make payroll?
This is really hard, but we had an amazing bank manager. We got invited to his wedding, and he was called John Hobbs. He's amazing. I mean, he was just amazing. And he really helped us. He supported us. And when we didn't get paid, he was like, okay, they gave us a line of credit, the bank, because we were all, shit. What're we going to do? This is really bad.
Well, we all agreed we had to pay people. So it's, if you're unanimous in your thinking, then you can navigate it. And I guess we all work in production, so we're all calm under pressure, which is quite helpful.
Mel: Good problem solvers, I guess,
Max: Yeah, there's definitely that moment isn't there where the shit hits the fan and you are either our single swim, you do something about it, or you huddle in the corner and cry. And I think anyone in events tends to be those who assess the situation, analyse action, and are off the job.
Nina Ferguson: I know, but that's what we do, isn't it?
Max: I think any aspect, one thing, just response you gave earlier, your enthusiasm, and the pure kind of joy that you share when you're talking about these wins, the pitches and things, the excitement is unlike that, that you see with a lot of CEOs, founders, and things like that. And I think it's lovely because I think it just shows the passion, the care, the word enthusiasm that comes through with it. It's lovely. I don't know; quite a few, but not many have that same love for it. Not that they don't love what they're doing, but that childlike kind of, Oh my God, who's on the phone and giddy, type of...
Nina Ferguson: It is brilliant, isn't it? But I think it must be like any job; if you get a massive order in from something, if you're selling a product and you're selling widgets, and someone goes, Hi, we're like, 10,000 widgets, you'd be like, Oh my God, how amazing. Got 10,000 widget orders. Like, brilliant. You're the meat. I mean, it is. You know what that does to your business as well.
If you get a big win, it's brilliant. It's brilliant for the team. It's brilliant for the business. I mean, why would you not celebrate that?
Max: But did you find yourself now hungry for the bigger wins and keep building and bigger and bigger?
Nina Ferguson: Well, it's interesting, actually, because we've now joined another family, and we've joined something called The Independents.
Max: Why have you chosen them?
Nina Ferguson: Because we were looking for a growth partner. So when we set up, we wanted geographical reach, and having set up an office in New York, I knew, after having setup of this, that we would not want to set up another office again.
Mel: Joyous, but once.
Nina Ferguson: Because it's really hard. It's just not easy. And what do you do? You either raise money, but we wanted to have geographical reach, so we were looking for the right partner to partner with. Because I think it's much better when you do things together.
And also the other thing that we realised in this world is that it's very important to be able to offer additional services to clients from a business perspective. You can obviously offer one service, but if you have the ear of a global CEO and a CMO, it doesn't make any sense to just offer them one service. It makes more sense to offer multiple services. And then you ask yourself, do I become a jack of all trades or master of one?
And then then you ask yourself, Well, if I want to set up this or sell this service, then I need to think about, does that make business sense? And then you go through a process, don't you? You analyse your business and go, Well, are we going to be just really good at what we do, or do we find other people, a company that we can offer additional services? Can we find a company that has geographical reach? Can we find a company that has the same culture as us, that has the same vision as us, and it's like looking for your life partner? I think it's as complicated as that, actually.
Max: Very much. And that's a lot of what the work that I do from day to day. Is it that this is laddering up to the bigger kind of finale for you guys? And obviously you don't have to say, but I presume that because it's Independent Groups, you remain fully owned and independents, and with that as a collective, it really is just a case of expanding the capabilities, and it's that.
Nina Ferguson: Yes. And then you sit alongside like-minded businesses that are in the creative industries. They have also set up businesses and run their own businesses, so everyone understands each other. We've all come from the same place. But also, you're then offering services. We work with the companies in Asia, so we can activate all over Asia, in the Middle East, and all over Europe. And you know that when you're collaborating, you're working with effectively. They're amazing. The standard of excellence and creativity is amazing.
And then the other services that you're being offered are all complimentary, and it becomes more 360, and they're very collaborative. So for me, it's like the holy grail of finding the right partner.
Max: Yeah, definitely now, especially with the challenging markets, a lot of businesses are now looking to see where they can expand capabilities to better service clients and avoid the leaky profit kind of, try different things.
Nina Ferguson: It makes good business sense.
Max: Definitely and on that road, and as Mel said that there's highs and lows, no doubt, are there any kind of moments, decisions, or things that you regret or that you hadn't done that you wish you had?
Nina Ferguson: Well, it's funny actually, because a lot of people say, Oh, I wish I hadn't worked so hard. I wish I'd spent... Well, when you listen to those podcasts, which I do, they go, Oh, I wish I'd been more present for my children, and I always came home at 5 o'clock. So I don't have that regret. Do I wish that I had maybe exercised more? Maybe. I look at the people in the office, and everyone walks out the door with their gym kit on. I kind of wish I'd been that person a few years ago.
Mel: But it also wasn't the culture a few years ago.
Nina Ferguson: No.
Mel: A lot of these kinds of conversations revolve around just the change of expectation from the next generation, I guess, but just the world has changed in the time. Like for us, it was a great day to go to the pub. Bad day; go to the pub. Won a pitch, go to the pub. Lost a pitch, go to the pub, and it's quite fun. It was loads of fun, but that sort of way, I guess, of building culture and those things that you do all revolved around the pub, whereas now people are, well, one of my friends who runs an agency said, you know, they go into running clubs or go into yoga; you go to the pub and everyone's having like a juice before they go to yoga or what have you. So, it's a very different time, actually.
Nina Ferguson: It is. I think maybe slightly slow on the uptake with some of the mistakes that we make, just from learning a business. I wonder if we'd taken some business advice; maybe we might not have made some of the mistakes that we had. But I guess you have to learn. The only way to learn is to do it yourself.
Max: Those mistakes. Can you share an example?
Nina Ferguson: Well, I mean, I think it's just the knowledge that we've gained. It's literally the business knowledge. It is just how to run a business, how to manage people, how to cash flow your business, and how to plan.
When you're looking at something now, I know that if someone came to me with a business plan and said, This is my plan. This is what I want to do. I would really be able to say to them, Okay, perhaps don't invest as much here. Maybe have you thought about that? Maybe focus on this. Maybe don't spend as much money there.
And that is just something you learn with experience. We just didn't have anyone telling us what to do. So, we'd go left, and then we'd think, okay, that's not necessarily working. So we'd go right and we go left, and I think we could have, but we've learnt, and I'd say we've learnt the hard way, which is fine; it's life, isn't it?
Max: Yeah, and you mentioned there then having someone kind of tell you, I agree, that actually sometimes by failing, you learn more so from that or not getting it quite right.
In your letter, you mentioned that a key mentor or figure that has been there and given kind of advice was your dad, and what has that role been like along the way? And that kind of advice and that kind of mentorship.
Nina Ferguson: Brilliant, because he was so business-minded. So he'd sit down, and I'd present it.
Max: Did he have his own business?
Nina Ferguson: No, I mean, he worked in banking, so he was financially minded, but I'd sit down and say, Okay, right, we're going to produce 20 music videos, and then we're going to, basically, we are going to produce the MTV Music Awards. In about two years, we'll probably get that client, and I really just thought the ambition was insanity.
In three years, we'll probably have 25 staff, and then we'll have offices here, and then we're going to set up in multiple countries. I mean, the whole thing was like insanity, but he listened, and he'd say, Okay, well, maybe perhaps, what do you think if you just, maybe just didn't do that and you just focused on that? Oh, okay, yeah, maybe, okay, that's not because the whole thing is complete madness.
But what I used to do is he'd say, Why don't you rewrite your plan and come back and present it to me? So I would then get sucked into work, and then I'd come back a few months later and say, Oh, Daddy, listen, I've rewritten the plan. So okay, let's sit down, and we'll go through it. And then I'd say, No. And I did that. I wrote so many plans. I mean, so many. I love writing a plan.
Max: And when you say a plan, are we talking for wording, or are we talking graphs and sheets, or are we talking kind of visual, or are we talking...
Nina Ferguson: A mixture of everything. And as I went into the business more, I then started, obviously, doing some more forecasting. Then I had more business sense, but in the beginning, it was just like... and I've got some of them I've kept because they're just ridiculous, and he's scribbled his notes on them. And I'm like, That's ridiculous. That’s really funny. And then Charlotte, like, you know, we're going to work with Chanel, and we're going to work with Apple, and we're going to work with what we're about. We're about to work with Hermes in LA, which has been one of our target clients.
Max: Framing these handwritten notes that you've done your sales loads and sitting on the wall, right?
Mel: It is real manifesting.
Nina Ferguson: I think it is manifesting, actually. Listen, there's no, there's no two ways about it. We worked really, really, really hard, really hard. As we all have, everyone sitting here has worked really hard.
Max: If you were to say that, or someone listening so perhaps had ambitions to set up their own business or starting out and wanting to kind of follow suit with the incredible career and incredible business that you've created, what would be your advice to them in terms of that kind of the earlier stages of that career?
Nina Ferguson: I think my advice to anyone and to myself would be definitely to take some advice, go and talk to people that have done it before, and actually to listen to what they've got to say, and obviously do it, but definitely go and talk to a few people first.
I think, actually, and the difference now is there is so much information available. So I mean, imagine. I just can't even imagine what it'd be like if we'd had all those podcasts, everything, all those stories. You can listen; you can listen to people and all the mistakes they've made already. You could lock yourself in a room for like two weeks and just listen to back-to-back podcasts and be better informed than Charlotte and I were in the beginning, clueless.
Mel: Yeah. What was really lovely is sometimes that naivety and that sort of just belief in yourself and passion to kind of go, Well, we're going to go and work. We're up, or, of course, we are. Yes, it takes you to places you wouldn't otherwise get to if you were—well, you know, maybe in 20 years. And how gorgeous of your dad to encourage it and listen and try and tame that ambition, but to try and just kind of guide you.
Nina Ferguson: I think you've got to follow your dream, but I don't think you have to conform. And even now, there are so many amazing jobs out there that are available to people. I think you don't have to just go and get a normal boring job.
You can go; okay, actually, I've got to go to work every day. I think it's okay to have fun with it. I think it's okay to hang out with like-minded people. This journey is that you've got to go to work every day. You've got to kind of really have a reason to get out of bed. It can be fun as well. It doesn't have to be a grind. You can earn a living and have fun at the same time, I think.
Max: I couldn't agree more. And prior to us, and love the chat, before we get to the big question at the end, what is it? Then we're talking about ambition and goals and dreams and things. So you in this position now, what does the future look like in terms of the next big goal, the big, hairy, audacious goal, or equally, what's the kind of not the end game, but equally?
Nina Ferguson: I know Charlotte and I really aligned on this; we want to make sure that we have a legacy business, and what that means is we do want to be in a position quite soon where we do start having a point where we start kind of giving back, and that we have a program where people can come to Inca, and they can start coming through, and they can start being trained, and we do take on younger people so we can give back. I mean, Charlotte's really good at this.
She volunteers for a lot of charities already, but we're very clear that we want it to be one of those businesses, but it doesn't just disappear; it remains, and it has its own life, and it actually starts giving back, because then it's gone full circle, and then I've arrived back at where I started, which was not saving political prisoners but actually doing something for good. That is the plan.
Max: Love that. Amazing.
Mel: Amazing. Well, you've already given so many brilliant pieces of advice, but the whole purpose of the podcast is to pass on that one piece of brilliant advice that you wish you'd had when you were younger. So what is that? Give us your one piece of advice.
Nina Ferguson: Well, the one piece of advice is that you actually have to trust yourself. You have to know that you've got to trust your gut, because actually, when you don't, is when things go wrong. But you know in your heart what's right, and you know in your heart what you want to do, and you have to follow that. And if you do, I think good things come to those who graft.
Max: Is there any way when that feeling of that gut feeling, a lot of people go? Well, how do I know?
Nina Ferguson: You know when it's wrong. I run totally on instinct and on gut, just 100%, but I also think you know when something's wrong. You know when you're standing there and you think, Oh no, I don't look good in this audit. This doesn't feel right, or actually, I'm not going to go there. And I think that you can start. That's a skill. You can actually fine-tune. You can start to learn how to work out what feels right. Doesn't take very long. And then if you start following that, you do actually get taken to where you're meant to be, and then you do start making the right decisions.
Max: I think that's another one episode in itself, fine-tuning that instinct and the ability to listen. That's amazing.
Thank you so much for sharing, being open, giving us your time, and all those incredible nuggets of wisdom and the story.
Nina Ferguson: I didn't call it wisdom, but anyway.
Mel: We are calling it wisdom.
Nina Ferguson: Okay. Fine.
Max: Thanks very much.
Nina Ferguson: Thank you.
Max: So how did you feel after that?
Mel: I mean, if ever there was an uplifting conversation, that was it, right? I am finding somebody that has been at the top of their game for 25 years, albeit, let's say the early years were a little bit rough around the edges, but to be at the top of your game, still passionate about what you do, still excited about the win, still really thinking about how you evolve and grow it. It's hugely inspiring. I think,
Max: I think for someone, and I agree completely with that. I think where you have 25 years later, this almost giddy, childlike enthusiasm for a phone call, the little wins, things like that that make it so, almost magical.
I use that term purposefully, because I just think the way that Nina articulated that I don't know. I didn't expect it. I suppose from Inca being this brand that you see, and it's on a mantle, and you think, holy moly, they're the best business that. And you meet the people behind you, like, wow, that's obviously a key part as to why they're successful. To your point, reinvent it and continue to do so.
But it's just so pleasantly surprised, and then to hear kind of how they do it and the authenticity and this kind of continued development, it's just something that I kind of aligned with my hopes; if you like you have a brand there, that's awesome. And you think, oh, it's going to be run like really militantly and things like that.
But actually now it's nice people can win and create environments and progression and legacy that lasts that has such a big impact on those that touch it.
Mel: I think a couple of other things really stood out for me in that conversation, just the industriousness of those early years, of not sitting back and expecting an opportunity to come, but going out there and faking your own internship.
Max: The applications first, handwritten letters.
Mel: We've seen that quite a lot with our guests, haven't we? That desire to get a fit in and not to sit back, and that proactiveness of this is my career. I'm going to do something about it. But I also really love the way that the three of them know their roles and know their strengths and really play to them for the benefit of the business.
I think, like I was saying in the conversation with Nina, it's really hard to find the balance of how much do you focus on your strengths and the things that you're good at versus the things you're not good at, and should you lean into making the things that you're not so strong at better? And actually, just what a testament to success, to be able to like, really find people that where you can lean into your strengths, you can find balance in one another. And actually, that allows you to really thrive. And I think it just goes to show that there are different approaches. You don't have to just follow one road or one path, but actually leaning into those strengths and those things that make you unique can be incredibly successful.
Max: Yeah. And the really refreshing kind of attitude is to, from such a young age, wanting to own your own business, knowing that and kind of keeping that true, whilst probably that stemming from some of those moves and nine international moves over such a short period of time.
I think it's a conversation I really, really enjoyed. I think there's something for everyone in it. Again, it's kind of knowing that the people and the team behind such an iconic kind of agency and brand, and I really enjoyed it.
Mel: Me too.
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